Hacker News: New comments on "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

New comment by ciupicri in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

ciupicri — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 17:42:10 +0000

Speaking of practice, I've found recently this: "Five thin client machines with same MAC Address?" ( http://superuser.com/q/760238/2357 )

New comment by AnonJ in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

AnonJ — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 15:00:18 +0000

It doesn't make much sense and looks utterly paranoid. To me, all this "privacy" thing looks more like a hype than something of real importance, and the companies like Apple are taking advantage of such a mentality. Suppose you operate a store, what would you want to do? Obviously collecting information to improve user experience is only natural. Put it this way: If, at the end of the shopping, somebody from the mall approaches you and asks you to fill out a survey about your shopping experience and what could be improved, would you comply? Probably one half of us will. Then why, a method which is not intrusive, does not take your precious time, and doesn't waste human resource on the part of the mall, would get such a strong reaction of yours? Is it really the "rationality" you boast? I totally doubt it. It's more likely pretensive overreaction.

New comment by codfrantic in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

codfrantic — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 13:28:32 +0000

>This only occurs for 'hidden' networks.

Incorrect, this occurs for all networks! I've had some fun with Wifi Pineapples before.

http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/10/02/what-is-your-phon...

New comment by meepmorp in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

meepmorp — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 04:08:55 +0000

What's lion taming like as a career?

New comment by michaelmior in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

michaelmior — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 19:38:48 +0000

That would probably solve most of the problems I was considering. But somehow I suspect implementing this may be more challenging than it appears.

New comment by smsm42 in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

smsm42 — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 19:29:01 +0000

I wonder when that better advertising would actually come along. They keep collecting the data but so far all the ads I've seen is either utterly irrelevant crap or "you visited shoe store so our network would show you the same shoe store's ads for the next 3 months, because it can't be that you don't need buy new shoes every day".

New comment by smsm42 in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

smsm42 — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 19:26:29 +0000

Possible, but never seen free wifi actually do that.

New comment by smsm42 in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

smsm42 — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 19:25:04 +0000

So they'd learn my name is Al Kapone, my nationality is the proud citizen of the glorious nation of Kazakhstan, my place of birth is the South Pole, my profession is a lion tamer and I live in 666 Fake Street, Garbadedataville. What they're going to do with this information?

New comment by nnnnni in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

nnnnni — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 15:32:04 +0000

Connect with your phone long enough to confirm?

New comment by maxmax in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

maxmax — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:55:36 +0000

Just wait until they implement dynamic pricing.

New comment by Nikker in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

Nikker — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 03:16:50 +0000

Each device sends beacons out at an interval. By sorting all the probes by these intervals (10Hz or what ever) each will likely be slightly different from each other. So my device sends probes out at 0s another will send it out at 0.5s. Also by co-relating these beacons by signal strength well the random MAC doesn't really matter.

New comment by userbinator in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

userbinator — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 02:50:16 +0000

Requiring email confirmation assumes the fact that the user can already connect to the Internet to access his/her email to read the message, throwaway account or not, so that wouldn't work too well...

New comment by userbinator in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

userbinator — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 02:38:21 +0000

The beauty of an abstraction is that you get to reap its benefits without understanding precisely how it works.

...and get to be manipulated and screwed over by the people who do.

While I don't expect the general public to know the details of WiFi down to e.g. the level of the 802.11 spec, I think that some general ideas, like the difference between passive/active scanning, are both simple enough to be understood by analogy and critical to privacy that they should be known more prominently.

New comment by tks2103 in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

tks2103 — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 23:24:17 +0000

Yeah that is one perspective for sure.

To be clear, I'm not arguing that it is justified or moral. Whatever you think about 'right' or 'wrong', you have to realize that a person who builds a store is going to want to know everything about how his or her store is used. EVERYTHING. That's not good or evil, that's just logical.

Acting like it should be self evident to a store owner that tracking users is inherently wrong is just ignoring the viewpoint of the store owner wholesale. Does not lead to good policy.

New comment by xraystyle in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

xraystyle — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 23:22:09 +0000

Do you have a source for this? Is there any documentation of this in the 802.11 spec? I'm also wondering if devices send a single probe per SSID they're looking for, or one probe with a list of SSIDs?

New comment by schoen in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

schoen — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 22:37:04 +0000

The FTC held a workshop this spring about location tracking, particularly the retail analytics kind that this is calculated to thwart. I spoke there and was the person on the panel categorically opposed to the tracking (though I placed the blame on the wifi device makers for leaking a tracking identifier, rather than the people taking advantage of the tracking opportunity).

http://www.ftc.gov/news-events/events-calendar/2014/02/sprin...

You can also read the comments that various organizations filed about this:

http://www.ftc.gov/policy/public-comments/initiative-516

New comment by schoen in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

schoen — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 22:16:18 +0000

I remember filling out that form. :-(

I also remember checking into a Brazilian hotel, where they wanted Brazilian guests, at least, to specify their highest level of formal education (!), as well as profession, date of birth, and the city from which the guest arrived and the city to which the guest planned to travel next.

I wonder if the last two are specifically meant to aid law enforcement investigations.

New comment by sitkack in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

sitkack — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 21:54:11 +0000

You know what is really creepy, when the tellers and staff at a store are painfully happy and courteous. If feels like if I frown or show any irritation their neck detonator will go off.

New comment by sitkack in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

sitkack — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 21:50:01 +0000

Non-Disadvantage Cards.

New comment by abalone in "iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks"

abalone — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 19:54:49 +0000

You are confusing geolocation with tracking. Geolocation merely lets the handset determine where it is. "Tracking" implies there is another party involved in monitoring your location. That can't happen with beacons unless the user runs an app that communicates your location back to a third party -- which it could do with regular old GPS geolocation too. iBeacons are just another way to do geolocation.

Also, iBeacon broadcasts can be detected by Android, or any other platform that wants to. I'm surprised no one has said this on the thread. It's clearly not about Apple lock-in.

Here's an Android library for doing it: http://developer.radiusnetworks.com/ibeacon/android/