<rss version="2.0" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"><channel><title>Hacker News: 4bpp</title><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=4bpp</link><description>Hacker News RSS</description><docs>https://hnrss.org/</docs><generator>hnrss v2.1.1</generator><lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2026 11:05:12 +0000</lastBuildDate><atom:link href="https://hnrss.org/user?id=4bpp" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml"></atom:link><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "No one owes you supply-chain security"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>The problem here is that there is more than two metaphorical people involved: there is the developer, the would-be user, and the evangelist who harangues the developer with "rewrite it in Rust brah" drive-by comments or blog posts about how nobody sane would use memory-unsafe languages/ecosystems without a vibrant community package management ecosystem in the year of our lord 2026.<p>The last person, I think, most clearly, <i>does</i> "owe" you supply-chain security, in the sense that he bears moral (and ought to be made to bear professional) responsibility for any adverse consequences you may suffer from its lack, though in practice he will probably often protest that he couldn't do anything about it because it's not like he is developer. Whether the developer also owes it is a more interesting question, and I think it greatly depends on what attitude he takes towards the evangelist (does he consider him a nuisance who makes implicit promises the developer is uninterested in delivering, or an ally who raises the dev's profile?).<p>Long ago, I remember seeing a cartoon which involved a tag-team of two people robbing a third, with A pointing a gun at C and saying "give your money to B", while B comments "I'm really just standing here, but I figure it's best if you do as he says". I'm not sure what exact piece of day-to-day politics this was made to comment on (though it was probably some or another flavour of political violence), but it seems somewhat applicable here as well. The lines just become "accept the supply chain, or suffer my public ridicule" and "I'm just providing the software 'as-is', but you probably should do as he says".</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2026 14:01:17 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47739769</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47739769</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47739769</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>Taking a step back, I think "search for outliers" doesn't quite get to the heart of the issue. Why are we searching for the outliers, and why are we so particular about the base distributions that we are searching for outliers of - why are there women's sports at all (if the outliers they find are not outliers on the same metric in the whole population), and why is boxing, for example, divided into weight classes?<p>It seems to me that a big part of the point of competitive spectator sports is to send, to the spectator, a message along the lines of "this could have been you". It is hard to argue that the ability to throw a 1kg+ discus exceptionally far is otherwise so useful that would justify all the expense of finding and showcasing the outlier. Therefore, the point of the competition stands and falls with whether the spectator buys this message.<p>When do spectators tend to believe in it? When <i>should</i> they? Arguably, there is a plethora of reasons  why the median American spectator looking at a clip of Usain Bolt running could not in any meaningful sense have been him. Yet, somehow, the "could-have-been-me sense" that people are endowed with transcends these reasons and results in men commonly looking at him and getting some of that could-have-been-me sense that gives the sport meaning, and women looking at him and getting much less of it. To solve this, we maintain a separate women's category. The winner there is not as much of an outlier relative to the distribution of the whole population. Most likely, she is still every bit as dissimilar to the spectators as Usain Bolt is. Yet, the women watching, and the ones merely learning about this event happening through osmosis, get their heart warmed by the dubious sense that this could have been them, and perhaps encouraged to try harder and hold more hope for some other pursuit of their own, in a way that they never would have due to Usain Bolt. Would they or would they not get the feeling for a transwoman sprinter? How would we even measure this?</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2026 13:02:31 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47542195</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47542195</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47542195</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "Show HN: Duplicate 3 layers in a 24B LLM, logical deduction .22→.76. No training"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>The most obvious way would simply be excessive agreeableness. Users rate responses more highly if they affirm the user's thinking, but a general tendency to affirm would presumably result in the model being more inclined to affirm its own mistakes in a reasoning chain.<p>There was some research about it early on that was shared widely and shaped the folklore perception around it, such as the graph in <a href="https://static.wixstatic.com/media/be436c_84a7dceb0d834a37b322e402b451bd86~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_640,h_342,al_c,lg_1,q_85,enc_auto/be436c_84a7dceb0d834a37b322e402b451bd86~mv2.png" rel="nofollow">https://static.wixstatic.com/media/be436c_84a7dceb0d834a37b3...</a> from the GPT-4 whitepaper which shows that RLHF destroyed its calibration (ability to accurately estimate the likelihood that its guesses are correct). Of course the field may have moved on in the 2+ years that have passed since then.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2026 18:23:57 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47443687</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47443687</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47443687</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "Show HN: Duplicate 3 layers in a 24B LLM, logical deduction .22→.76. No training"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>Yeah, that's what I meant with "initialised as identity and the training process did not get to change them much".</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2026 12:32:38 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47438260</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47438260</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47438260</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "Show HN: Duplicate 3 layers in a 24B LLM, logical deduction .22→.76. No training"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>That's interesting, could you point me to some source on these findings?<p>It seems to me that the difference between "iterative improvement" as you put it and "close to the identity" (as in the output is close to the input for most of the volume of the input space) as I put it is fairly subtle, anyway. One experiment I would like to see is what happens to the reasoning performance if rather than duplicating the selected layers, they are deleted/skipped entirely. If the layers improve reasoning by iterative improvement, this should make the performance worse; but if they contain a mechanism that degrades reasoning and is not robust against unannealed self-composition, it should make the performance similarly better.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2026 12:31:05 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47438244</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47438244</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47438244</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "Show HN: Duplicate 3 layers in a 24B LLM, logical deduction .22→.76. No training"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>Assuming the benchmarks are sound (rather than capturing a fluke), the provided explanation still does not pass the smell test. As far as I can tell, there is nothing about the training process of these models that would encourage them to make the output of any layer apart from (n-1) meaningful as the input of layer n, unless perhaps these layers were initialised as identity and the training process did not get to change them much. (Plausible for middle layers?)<p>Considering this, I think (again, assuming the benchmarks themselves are sound) the most plausible explanation for the observations is (1) the layers being duplicated are close to the identity function on most inputs; (2) something happened to the model in training (RLHF?) that forcefully degraded its reasoning performance; (3) the mechanism causing the degradation involves the duplicated layers, so their duplication has the effect of breaking the reasoning-degrading mechanism (e.g. by clobbering a "refusal" "circuit" that emerged in post-training).<p>More concisely, I'm positing that this is an approach that can only ever break things, and rather than boosting reasoning, it is selectively breaking things deleterious to reasoning.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2026 02:43:19 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47434231</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47434231</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47434231</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "We Will Not Be Divided"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>"What have the Romans ever done for us?"
(<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ</a>)</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2026 02:12:11 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47189219</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47189219</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47189219</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "Claude Sonnet 4.6"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>If you are so allergic to using terms previously reserved for animal behaviour, you can instead unpack the definition and say that they produce outputs which make human and algorithmic observers conclude that they did not instantiate some undesirable pattern in other parts of their output, while actually instantiating those undesirable patterns. Does this seem any less problematic than <i>deception</i> to you?</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2026 19:13:32 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47051708</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47051708</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47051708</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "Gas Town Decoded"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>Environmentalism has always been a "weight of our sins" sort of issue. Plastic straws are a rounding error relative to all the capricious uses of plastic and fossil fuels in our economy, but few things <i>feel</i> as frivolous as using once and then throwing away a piece of plastic for personal convenience while engaging in an already-kinda-sinful feeling activity like indulging in a soft drink, while simultaneously the paper straw that turns to cardboard mash in your mouth is perfectly calibrated to make you feel like you are doing real penance without encumbering anything economically important.<p>So plastic straw bans (instead of plastic slipper bans, plastic food packaging bans, taxes on plastic clothes fibres...) are what we get. And because the structure of the cause/problem is the same, the language of environmentalism naturally attaches itself and gives form to the vague sense of moral unease surrounding AI. Governments are surely already building tomorrow's tightly integrated thought police drone swarm complexes, but a crusade against those who simulate a zoo of programming weasels in our midst is much easier and morally no less fulfilling.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2026 11:10:46 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46677623</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46677623</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46677623</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "The Post-American Internet"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>Unfortunately, all it will take is an appropriate choice of story about "Nazis"/"child predators"/"pirates"/"terrorists"/"Russian bots" sideloading unregulated apps or disabling the GPS trackers on their cars, and every prospective member of Doctorow's great new coalition (including most everyone in attendance when the talk was given) can be peeled away with ease.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2026 13:13:26 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46511805</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46511805</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46511805</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "Staying ahead of censors in 2025"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>Well, I don't see anything obvious to criticise about what your interlocutors posted; their statements seem plausible enough to me, and if there is actually a knockout argument against them, I don't know it, because the person who seemed to disagree (you) was busy making childish noises instead of making it!<p>> jet fuel/steel beams<p>This debate was carried out sufficiently publicly that I got the sense people actually ran experiments confirming the pro-beam softening/structural failure/whatever case; certainly the "truther" case should have been taken seriously <i>before</i> that, and with decorum always because there is no situation in which any debate in a moderatable forum benefits from playground behaviour.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2025 10:58:25 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46443138</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46443138</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46443138</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "Staying ahead of censors in 2025"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>Do you think that the people who made those remarks you cite considered them untrue themselves? If yes, you are suggesting bad faith (which should be grounds to extricate yourself from the discussion and/or call it out, not add fuel to the fire); if not, you are suggesting that factual disagreement is appropriately answered by childishness, which basically is saying that you think <i>every</i> discussion worth the name should devolve into childishness.<p>Often, it seems like this concept of "disinformation" you invoke just serves as a way people give themselves moral license to suspend normal rules of debate conduct in the face of disagreement. Being charitable to your opponents and having to engage with their claims is tiring and difficult, and sometimes they even come better prepared - how much easier if you can just frame dissent as dangerous enemy action and shut it down.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2025 15:40:10 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46434378</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46434378</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46434378</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "Staying ahead of censors in 2025"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>> freeze peach<p>Do you not think that trying to malign your opposition by putting a comical misspelling in their mouths is a bit infantile as a rhetorical tactic? The same thing being done to you would look something like an insinuation that what is being banned is "hurting someone's widdle fee-fees"; surely the discussion here would not benefit if everyone stooped down to that level.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2025 13:18:56 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46420416</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46420416</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46420416</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>It is by no means a <i>good</i> publication, but at the same time being accepted as a citation on Wikipedia or not is not necessarily a particularly objective measure of quality. I recommend reading <a href="https://www.tracingwoodgrains.com/p/reliable-sources-how-wikipedia-admin" rel="nofollow">https://www.tracingwoodgrains.com/p/reliable-sources-how-wik...</a> for the critical perspective on Wikipedia's integrity in this regard.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2025 22:55:02 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46238480</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46238480</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46238480</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "Bag of words, have mercy on us"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>Maybe because I didn't understand what you said. Who does "her" refer to?</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2025 14:57:07 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46192917</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46192917</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46192917</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "Bag of words, have mercy on us"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>"Her"->"the"? (Or, who is "she" here?)<p>Either way, in what way is this relevant? If the human's labor is not useful at any price point to any entity with money, food or housing, then they presumably will not get paid/given food/housing for it.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2025 06:21:14 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46189014</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46189014</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46189014</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "Bag of words, have mercy on us"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>As usual with these, it helps to try to keep the metaphor used for downplaying AI, but flip the script. Let's grant the author's perception that AI is a "bag of words", which is already damn good at producing the "right words" for any given situation, and only keeps getting better at it.<p>Sure, this is not the same as being a human. Does that really mean, as the author seems to believe without argument, that humans need not be afraid that it will usurp their role? In how many contexts is the <i>utility</i> of having a human, if you squint, not just that a human has so far been the best way to "produce the right words in any given situation", that is, to use the meat-bag only in its capacity as a word-bag? In how many more contexts would a really good magic bag of words be <i>better</i> than a human, if it existed, even if the current human is used somewhat differently? The author seems to rest assured that a human (long-distance?) lover will not be replaced by a "bag of words"; <i>why</i>, especially once the bag of words is also ducttaped to a bag of pictures and a bag of sounds?<p>I can just imagine someone - a horse breeder, or an anthropomorphised horse - dismissing all concerns on the eve of the automotive revolution, talking about how marketers and gullible marks are prone to <i>hippomorphising</i> anything that looks like it can be ridden and some more, and sprinkling some anecdotes about kids riding broomsticks, legends of pegasi and patterns of stars in the sky being interpreted as horses since ancient times.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2025 01:59:46 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46187468</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46187468</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46187468</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "Over fifty new hallucinations in ICLR 2026 submissions"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>Once upon a time, in a more innocent age, someone made a parody (of an even older Evangelical propaganda comic [1]) that imputed an unexpected motivation to cultists who worship eldritch horrors: <a href="https://www.entrelineas.org/pdf/assets/who-will-be-eaten-first-howard-hallis-2004.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://www.entrelineas.org/pdf/assets/who-will-be-eaten-fir...</a><p>It occurred to me that this interpretation is applicable here.<p>[1] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_tract" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_tract</a></p>
]]></description><pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2025 19:32:29 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46184359</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46184359</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46184359</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>If the end result is going to be that the EU turns into Russia or China under the pretext of standing up to them (because apparently building an opaque process that civil society can't keep up with to ram through authoritarian laws is what it takes to be competitive?), then I'd rather they cut out the extra steps and let the Russians/Chinese take over. At least then nobody would be telling me that  what I got is the outcome of some sacred democratic process I am obliged to respect.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2025 13:09:43 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46078334</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46078334</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46078334</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by 4bpp in "EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>"The plans for scanning your chats were on display for fifty Earth years at the local planning department in Alpha Centauri"?<p>Nobody's attention span is infinite. I don't doubt I could understand all details of the EU legislative process and keep track of what sort of terrible proposals are underway if I put in the time, but I have a day job, hobbies that are frankly more interesting, and enough national legislation to keep track of.<p>If you then also say that the outcome is still my responsibility as a voter, then it seems like the logical solution is that I should vote for whatever leave/obstruct-the-EU option is on the menu. I don't understand why I am obliged to surrender either a large and ever-growing slice of my attention or my one-over-400something-million share of sovereignty.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2025 12:11:41 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46077965</link><dc:creator>4bpp</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46077965</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46077965</guid></item></channel></rss>