<rss version="2.0" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"><channel><title>Hacker News: Diogenesian</title><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=Diogenesian</link><description>Hacker News RSS</description><docs>https://hnrss.org/</docs><generator>hnrss v2.1.1</generator><lastBuildDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2026 21:12:18 +0000</lastBuildDate><atom:link href="https://hnrss.org/user?id=Diogenesian" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml"></atom:link><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by Diogenesian in "All Logic, No Bite"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>I would say high school geometry is still mostly "syllogistic" and not the formal philosophical / mathematical logic worked out between Kant and Gödel which forms the backbone of modern mathematics. It is good solid logical thinking, and mathematically correct! - but not really what the author means here.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2026 16:59:02 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48735634</link><dc:creator>Diogenesian</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48735634</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48735634</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by Diogenesian in "Words Are a Byproduct of Consciousness. For LLMs, It's Backwards"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>St Augustine had it right 1500 years ago: humans learn words opportunistically according to their desires and problems and existing deep understanding of the world, and (critically) humans really can't learn language without being natively fluent in great ape facial expressions, gestures, grunts, etc.<p><pre><code>  Did I not, then, as I grew out of infancy, come next to boyhood, or rather did it not come to me and succeed my infancy? My infancy did not go away (for where would it go?). It was simply no longer present; and I was no longer an infant who could not speak, but now a chattering boy. I remember this, and I have since observed how I learned to speak. My elders did not teach me words by rote, as they taught me my letters afterward. But I myself, when I was unable to communicate all I wished to say to whomever I wished by means of whimperings and grunts and various gestures of my limbs (which I used to reinforce my demands), I myself repeated the sounds already stored in my memory by the mind which thou, O my God, hadst given me. When they called some thing by name and pointed it out while they spoke, I saw it and realized that the thing they wished to indicate was called by the name they then uttered. And what they meant was made plain by the gestures of their bodies, by a kind of natural language, common to all nations, which expresses itself through changes of countenance, glances of the eye, gestures and intonations which indicate a disposition and attitude--either to seek or to possess, to reject or to avoid. So it was that by frequently hearing words, in different phrases, I gradually identified the objects which the words stood for and, having formed my mouth to repeat these signs, I was thereby able to express my will. Thus I exchanged with those about me the verbal signs by which we express our wishes and advanced deeper into the stormy fellowship of human life, depending all the while upon the authority of my parents and the behest of my elders.
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[<a href="https://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/augustine/conf.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/augustine/conf.pdf</a>]</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2026 14:31:28 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48733235</link><dc:creator>Diogenesian</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48733235</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48733235</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by Diogenesian in "All Logic, No Bite"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>"xor you can't play Minecraft" is correct :)</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2026 14:00:02 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48732865</link><dc:creator>Diogenesian</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48732865</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48732865</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by Diogenesian in "All Logic, No Bite"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>This doesn't seem quite right to me:<p><pre><code>  In the modern academic practice, the question of where a particular idea came from, or whether an axiom is ontologically correct, is considered vacuous and out of scope. For the most part, you’re just handed a rulebook to play someone else’s game.
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I very much had the opposite problem with Munkres's Topology or Dummit and Foote's Abstract Algebra: those authors hand you the ontological / scientific justifications for "everyday" ZFC without actually telling you the precise rules. I had to read a formal book on mathematical logic before I really understood point-set topology (at which point my misconceptions were clearly trivial confusion).<p>To be clear I think the standard intuitive semi-naive set theory is the correct approach for most math students. But it didn't work for me. I needed to see the axioms and formal language.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2026 13:01:46 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48732154</link><dc:creator>Diogenesian</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48732154</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48732154</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by Diogenesian in "Do LLMs pass the mirror test?"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p><p><pre><code>  >> Wait, looking at the prompt history, the model had a strange quirk.

  Throughout every prior thinking trace in the conversations (and, honestly, every other thinking trace across all other conversations I've had with it), the frame is always in first-person, including the moment in this one where it "noticed" the corruption: "I noticed," "I had some weird typos," "did I do that on purpose?" And then the moment the anomaly couldn't be reconciled with the self-model, the language shifted to third person: "The model had a strange quirk." Effectively, the thing doing the thinking dissociated from the thing that produced the anomalous output, as if they were two entirely different layers of the process, much in the same way a person might fumble an easy sentence and then go for something like "my brain just did something weird." Except, of course, that "me" vs "my brain" is a distinction without a difference in much the same way Gemma's "I" vs "the model" is. Gemma is the model, just as much as we are our brains.
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I'll leave aside the claim that "we are our brains" - this actually reads to me like Gemma might have briefly responded as if its history came from another LLM agent and it was the next line in the chain. OTOH it might have been reading its RLHF notes a little too closely. The stuff about "my brain did X" is too anthropomorphic for my taste.<p>Likewise with Claude referring to "the model" - that quote sounds like something an Anthropic worker would say. Seems like a pithy little line Claude could have learned "on the job."</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2026 00:02:39 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48713117</link><dc:creator>Diogenesian</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48713117</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48713117</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by Diogenesian in "Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>Hmm I think one part every commenter is missing is that students have grown way more  mercenary and cynical over the last 20 years. I was shocked in grad school that:<p>a) I got bullied into sharing my math homework so people could copy it, just like high school and college... but this was math grad school!<p>b) In 2011 I TAed a 4000-level course where the instructor left the solutions to the homework online (he wrote the book). I estimate 95% of students copied the solutions. It was only 5% of the grade and they paid for it on the exams. Still. Kind of stunning to see at U Waterloo - it was a continuous optimization course and most of them wanted to work in finance, yikes.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2026 22:31:05 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48712413</link><dc:creator>Diogenesian</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48712413</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48712413</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by Diogenesian in "AI in mathematics is forcing big questions"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>That's not what I mean. I am talking about quirks and bugs that really are pretty subtle, and which really might turn up in e.g. a verified systems programming context: <a href="https://github.com/James-Hanson/junk-theorems-in-lean/blob/main/JunkTheorems.lean" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/James-Hanson/junk-theorems-in-lean/blob/m...</a> (there is a proof of 0=1 at the end - it is easy to understand where it comes from, but low-level compiler stuff like this is always a possibility.)<p>LLM agents will a) discover dumb counterintuitive stuff like this and b) exploit it to satisfy the kernel with c) the questionable lines being buried behind millions of lines of math slop. Humans have to check this stuff.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2026 17:13:59 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48699944</link><dc:creator>Diogenesian</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48699944</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48699944</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by Diogenesian in "AI in mathematics is forcing big questions"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>These proof checkers all have bugs, every single one, and since AI is still 100% incapable of understanding simple mathematics we should assume agents are likely to cheat by exploiting a kernel bug. So a human really does have to be able to read and understand the proof. There's no difference between blindly trusting Lean and blindly trusting Grigori Perelman: yes you can be reasonably confident the proof is correct. But you gotta check.<p>This future of "the AI built the compiler and it's totally incomprehensible spaghetti, but don't worry, it verified the compiler works using this AI-generated proof assistant whose codebase is also pure spaghetti" terrifies me.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2026 11:58:27 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48697482</link><dc:creator>Diogenesian</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48697482</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48697482</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by Diogenesian in "Data centers trigger voter backlash"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>I think part of it is the perception that real environmental and public health damage is being done for totally trivial and indefensible causes. A data center is not like an airplane parts manufacturer, which has lots of ugly pollution but provides a necessary national service. Most people use generative AI recreationally, and the productivity gains among white-collar workers are awfully ephemeral. And if you're less pessimistic about the economics of generative AI... that makes it worse!<p>"We get a ton of money, you get increased natural gas emissions, increased unemployment, your electric bill is going up... oh and guess who's bailing us out when the bubble bursts?" Pretty rotten deal!</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2026 18:28:20 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48690174</link><dc:creator>Diogenesian</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48690174</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48690174</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by Diogenesian in "Honesty gets Emacs patch rejected"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>"Oops, I really should have checked GNU's policy on LLM code generation before submitting an LLM-generated patch. That was a stupid mistake: not only was my patch rejected, I publicly announced myself as a thoughtless blunderer who doesn't read the rules."<p>- from an alternate reality, where devs still have shame and humility</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2026 05:42:18 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48682749</link><dc:creator>Diogenesian</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48682749</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48682749</guid></item></channel></rss>