And no, asking for sources is not gaslighting, no matter how much you say it is. It’s important to me that my beliefs are backed by evidence, and so you’ll have to forgive me that I just can’t assume that “a woke mind virus is a thing that exists” is a valid claim.

@sanity posted a sibling reply which I can’t reply to because it’s [dead] for some reason. In that reply they do give a couple of examples of recent literature that they say supports their claim. I will freely admit I’m not familiar with the work they’re citing so I’m going to look into it. Upon a brief look at a summary of the Lukianoff and Haidt work, I don’t think it actually addresses the claim which I was asking for sources for, but I will reserve judgment until I read it.

It's dishonest because it pretends that people behaving in a way that you don't like are somehow infected by some (literal or metaphorical) contagion, when I am not aware of any evidence that this is the case.

I'd be delighted to be proven wrong on either of the above with studies or other serious sources. I'll wait.

* You made the mailing list post on 22 Jan 2023.

* Elon Musk first used the phrase (on Twitter, at least) on 19 Dec 2021. [0]

* As of May 2022 at the latest, he was regularly using it in tweets, including ones with tens and hundreds of thousands of likes. [1][2][3]

* By the end of 2022, "woke mind virus" was well-known enough that other users were cracking jokes about it. [4][5]

[0] https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/1472371245744373760#m

[1] https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/1516600269899026432#m

[2] https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/1526975113597489154#m

[3] https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/1527356085090545664#m

[4] https://xcancel.com/ditzkoff/status/1602283284947427329#m

[5] https://xcancel.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/160521361079977984...

Whether or not you're seeing posts from racists doesn't change the purpose of the site. One of the purposes of the site, as stated directly by its owner, has been to spread more right wing viewpoints. Many of those viewpoints have turned out to be extreme and violent, and the owner of the site has plainly stated that he will not remove those viewpoints.

You're welcome to do your own research to establish any of the above. When I say "Twitter is the Nazi bar" I'm not basing it on what I see (I, of course, don't have a Twitter account), but on what the site's owner has stated and what has borne out to be true based on research.

Real people, innocent of any wrongdoing, are being harmed by views being spread on sites like Twitter, and the people running the site condone it. If you care about that, the moral action to take is to stop using it. You are also welcome to not care, but implicit in that decision is that you also don't care about those real people being harmed.

It has, feel free to educate yourself.

> I rarely see a constructive discussion around him here on HN at least, it's straight hate (aka Hate speech).

This is not what hate speech means in the common usage of the term.

> I really don't see it that way

I'm sorry, but it's the truth.

> it's literally the same example as the Gay Bar

If it was a gay supremacy bar where everyone hung out to talk about exterminating anyone who isn't gay, then it would be the same. Otherwise, it is very, very different.

> Are you a criminal if you listen to "criminal" music?

I'm not sure what criminal music is, but probably not.

> Are you muslim if you read extensively the Quran?

Nope, not necessarily.

But if you regularly hang out at the Nazi bar, you are a Nazi. The problem is the paradox of tolerance; views such as Nazism that attempt to violently suppress those based on, for example, their genetic or ethnic characteristics cannot be tolerated, under any circumstances. We (the world) fought a whole war about this approximately 80 years ago, and I would prefer not to have to learn that lesson through warfare again.

Personally I wouldn't do any of these things, but regardless, they're not the same. Hate speech on Twitter has increased following Musk's acquisition, and the company has done nothing to curb it. The purpose of Twitter is to spread extremist views; that is now why it exists. I'm sure it'd be possible to meet some great people and have intellectual conversations at a Nazi bar too, but that's not why it exists.

> It does absolutely not make me a Nazi if I visit a "Nazi-owned bar"

I said Nazi bar, not Nazi-owned bar. Please don't put things in quotation marks that I didn't say. And it absolutely does make you a Nazi if you knowingly and regularly visit the Nazi bar.

The difference between HN (and Reddit, Youtube, Discord, Instagram) vs Twitter is that none of those other sites are owned and run by a Nazi for the express purpose of providing a space for Nazis and people holding similar viewpoints to spread their hate. It is exactly the virtual equivalent of the Nazi bar.

> I'm please to read those alternative views, if you don't read the alternative opinions, how can you know what's going-on? How can you understand the psyche behind those individuals?

You're pleased to read the views of Nazis? Personally, I don't want or care to understand the psyche of Nazis. I want them to be shunned by society, and to crawl back into the holes they came from.

> maybe they are just able to continue enjoying a technology without thinking about the politics behind it?

If someone regularly visits the Nazi bar to have a beer, and is aware of its status as a Nazi bar and is still OK with that, they are a Nazi. I'm sorry that it sounds like you don't like this, but no amount of discussion of "but what about free speech" or "let's stay away from politics" is going to change it.

> Code != Politics

Hard disagree. Plus, equating white supremacy and other abnormal extremist views with "politics" only serves to minimize the real effect that spreading those views has on innocent people.

There’s a map here: https://www.ncsl.org/transportation/special-registration-fee...

Looks like most of the northeast, plus AK, FL, AZ, NM, and NV are in the same boat.

Calling the site and its users out is not out of place, and I will continue to do so until it is no longer such a place or it is gone, whether that happens in 6 months or 50 years.

Maybe it would be nice if we didn't apologize for people who throw Nazi salutes in public? Elon doesn't deserve your kindness or consideration. It isn't political to say that Nazis are bad and people who sympathize with them are bad.

Assuming you’re talking about the US here: there is no such requirement, at least not at the federal level. Individual states may have their own laws, but see for example this notice [0] from a Texas federal court that they will no longer accept cash as of May 21, 2021.

[0] https://www.txnb.uscourts.gov/news/notice-court-will-no-long...

Yes.