About ladybird, I think it is quite a good benchmark:

- they have accomplished a task many thought impossible in the modern world

- they accomplished it while having a handful of people

- they had a fraction of resources compared to both google and Mozilla. only about a year ago they had few hundred of thousands as support money to get them started.

The engine may not be finished yet. may not be as performant as the other two. but they did a 3rd engine. and given 10% of the budget Mozilla has, they would progress much more. Ladybird Team has shown how everything about Mozilla is mismanaged and simply broken.

point is that Mozilla is wasting money and having 4000 people working on chrome may not be the correct benchmark.

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in a couple of years they built the engine from scratch. it's going to soon enter Alpha. how many people from ladybird built that engine? about 10?

all while everyone has said that modern web makes this task impossible

but, maybe the company didn't adjust well? maybe it was a bad time to do this, but ladybird is not a big company and they seem to be progressing well.

any real proof for the Chinese spyware statement? is it really bad?

is it better than Google spyware?

I can't believe the latency of browser based editor is acceptable to people

the reason why I didnt is because I despise JavaScript and was hoping that webassembly would give an alternative. which never became an alternative.

with embedded you are arguing for my point. you say sometimes there are alternatives (maybe depending on the platform). sometimes not. you can change platforms as well. that's fine. sometimes is very much different from none. and we have none for the web.

there is no alternative to the web and within the web there are no alternative languages.

for embedded, you have options, no? and I don't mean glue: rust. quick Google says Ada and assembly.

So, dart?

Back in the day Google had plans to make a dart VM in Chrome, but powers that be didn't like this idea.

So here we are. it's 2026 and the web is still limited to one language. Dare I say the only area where we don't have alternatives.

would really be happy to have had these explanations before I had to figure it out for myself.

then you have these guys who reached the next level

https://www.dns.toys/

opera had to earn their money.

this aside, Mozilla just now implemented tab grouping. does that mean they are going to, because of the added features, follow opera's path?

my point was that someone said how they increased development speed. and I'm saying they are breaking record in how slow it is. it's not 1y, it's since the feature appeared anywhere and it's 20y ago. what the f was Mozilla doing since then? obviously they didn't work on the features. but also they didn't work on the other list of things I mentioned since only one is fully delivered (look and feel on all platforms) and those are non-features like fore mentioned tab groupings, but core capabilities for a browser.

in everything else they are so much behind it's really a wonder they still have market share as much as they do.

different point of view: tab grouping took 20+y to develop (since opera had it in 2000s).

in 2026 firefox should have: - fast ui - fast js - fast rendering - hw acceleration for video - same look and feel on all platforms - faster adblocker

just the basics, no? didn't add more advanced features here.

and let's see what is actually here: - UI rendered via HTML/xul. an abomination. a slow abomination at that. right clicking something can show you stagers of rendering of a menu. - check any Js benchmarks, you will see how FF stands - rendering,... there was a talk in one of the conferences explaining timing requests and time-to-picture. this may be blamed on the standards, but chrome does it better - video hw acceleration on Linux? is this actually working? and I don't mean 3/100 relevant codecs - same look and feel - done - AdBlock is the only advantage you have over other platforms. it would make sense to implement this in the browser and not rely on Js and extensions

it's sad and funny that people with only a couple million are going to soon catch up to Mozilla and make it obsolete, by building a Bowser engine, not only a shell around blink/WebKit.

this is the reason in my opinion and experience

as a lead dev in a rather complicated environment I tended to solve the problem many times where some identifier was used. short deadlines and no specification made us solve the problem quickly, so some shortcuts and quick actions were done. this identifier gets asked about later and super overcomplicated explanations given as a reason by people that don't know the history.

...and the history is often like 'they mounted stuff to /usr because they got a third drive'. and now, people even in this thread keep giving explanations like it's something more.

yes gnome has a vision of how the desktop should look like and strong behavior of "my way or the highway", but maybe you get surprised how well it works. especially on fedora.

I assumed wrongly other people (you mostly) use gnome by default, which obviously is not the case. in that case I could see it as a problem since not everyone has red hat resources for desktop development.

is it considered social media?

if this is so, I can admit I'm wrong. so not everything works for everyone.

For myself and members of my family, I can say that absolutely everything works on gnome. And I have several machines, spread over several cpu and gpu generations, and different form factors that confirm this. not only those 3 laptops I mentioned.

Could it be that since you are not using gnome that you are hitting those problems? My experience is exclusively gnome, so maybe this is it?

a11y aside of course... given that this was not really finished. or seriously worked on.

here is my state of laptops:

* Dell latitude with old Intel 8gen CPU, it works fine (Linux kernel causes problems with PSR, but this has nothing to do with Wayland and disabling it fixes the problem, same thing with cstates)

* Dell latitude with 10gen CPU, works fine.

* Huawei d15 with Ryzen 3000 Apu, works fine.

ok. for accessibility it's fair enough as a critique. I don't use it so can't say. As far as I can tell this hasn't been in focus at all. but most of this is on the toolkit side, not Wayland (even though here one thing is mentioned as Wayland specific, just briefly went through the post)

https://blogs.gnome.org/a11y/2024/06/18/update-on-newton-the...