Btw, did Onyx publish sources as required by GPLv3 for that device? AFAIK there are no sources in the open (if I am not mistaken ) and I have no idea what can push them toward publishing them.

Comments URL: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39142863

Points: 2

# Comments: 0

I tried to make vm in Squeak turning off graphics/sound and compiled vm but it just didn’t work when I was trying to run it.

Is there a relatively simple way to remove all fancy objects and keep only bare minimum that would at least run it so I can learn it further?

It has to be VM that gives repl through terminal and ability to modify image further, vm need to run without breaking if graphics/sound not available when even linux drivers aren’t available, on pi zero w let’s say.

With my current limitations I cannot dive into learning the language deeply in any other different setup.

Is it possible? I am sure someone have already done that somewhere. I am really trying to avoid dealing with c++ but the way vm is done it seems that instead of learning Squeak I have to dive into all the ‘beauty’ of compiling c with cmake instead.

In IOS 14 ‘ login’ button simply does nothing regardless of the browser.

It’s been reported and yet last time I’ve checked it doesn’t work. It’s more than two months already and as it seems simply no body give a sh….

The only thing I wish to add is that this kind of “selectiveness” of facts by those who argue with Israel existence is by itself one of the main reasons for Israel creation in the first place.

Very good, now you can make your point about your dismissal of the real map in the real logo of the real PLO which shows no place for Israel while you have brought some school map as argument in the first place portraying it as ‘typical map’ which turned out to be map for children of 2nd and 3rd grades from one book and was 1 of 10 maps in some post in quora that clearly stating that children are exposed to variety of maps according to their age (https://www.quora.com/What-borders-does-Israel-show-in-maps-...).

to avoid duplicating it’s summarised here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38831687

Makes sense ? Well, there is some problem with the sense of it. PLO (and supposedly it’s logo) was created in 1964 when Israel pretty much existed. But of course it makes sense if you wish the destruction of Israel and jewish population of it …same way as the current slogan 'from the river to the sea'.

I understand this thing I really do and to develop those capabilities I would have to do it outside of Smalltalk with C and other tools in terminal but I really want to do it with and within Smalltalk learning it more as I go and that requires it starting without sound/graphics in the first stage. This is the only choice available for me with my current limitations. I can temporarily run it to compile vm from source on other hardware but I cannot use it for longer work this way. I don’t care really about the role I am putting myself in as long as I can study it more deeply by already using it and I am simply looking for easier way then implementing it from scratch and without Smalltalk because I only can work from terminal. I would agree that there are many interesting places for starting from scratch too and it would be interesting to see if you would point to them too but in my current situation I am really looking for the intermediate step I’ve described. I simply have no other options for progress at the moment due to my limitations. In other moment I would imagine many other options and probably would not be that focused on one of them.

I do not know how maps from 1922, 1947,1949, 1967 and 2008 with completely different borders are showing “roughly the same thing” for you. (https://www.quora.com/What-borders-does-Israel-show-in-maps-...)

If you refer only to the maps for 2nd and 3rd grades I can assure you that many things in 2nd and 3rd grade appear as “roughly the same thing” and it’s only with further education you begin to notice certain nuances. At this point I believe I should strongly recommend to use maps for more grown up children to make your point.

>You're making a big deal about the PLO logo…

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/Plo_emblem.pn...) The official PLO logo clearly suggests no Israel existence.

You’ve brought map to make your point (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38755727) and now you are suddenly dismissal about the map on official PLO logo and then you’ve tried to portrait me as making “a big deal” about it. Another trick to register and unfortunately such tricks and manipulative efforts are common trends in every supporter of “from the river to the sea” chant that I’ve seen. I wander what purpose they are trying to achieve by misleading others and what they are trying to hide under the “nice” words.

You were also completely dismissive about extreme and dangerous nature of the phrase “from the river to the sea” for both sides. You also completely skipped the fact of Israel withdrawal from Gaza in 2005 even after I have pointed to those two main points.

I am making a big deal of you making misleading comments and using manipulative techniques to distort the reality and hide the truth to push certain agenda without thinking through the consequences of your actions (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38589935) and your conscious or unconscious contribution to spreading propaganda beneficial to Hamas which leads to the loss of life on both sides. This is a moral blindness at best and intentional malevolent effort at worst.

> There was actually a dispute … It's standard in Israel …

Sources and facts are required to support such claims. After your manipulative approach with maps it’s difficult to trust the ‘stories’ you spread.

>The PLO recognizes the state of Israel.

Their logo doesn’t reflect it. Documents and factually proven persistent behaviour that is in accordance with such claim are required.

Any document to support this claim? Certainly their logo has not changed.

I know it’s hard to change the logo but I during 30 years it should be possible if it is no longer serving their goal.

To add essential information to yours when you’ve brought Likud and B.Netaniahu and forgot to mention M. Abbas leader of PLO with logo clearly showing map “from the river to the sea” without any place for Israel on it.

Perhaps you can state your point clearly now with this information because your point wasn’t clear at all.

Thank you for your answer. This is exactly the path I went through. I decided to go with interpreter and I have built one. During this process I tried to exclude sound support and I think I did but resulting vm was still complaining about some sound library that was missing. As I remember I didn’t figure out how to turn-off-more what is already turned off and postponed solution for better times.

>You're not likely to get very far with just a repl on a Squeak-derived (i.e. Cuis/Squeak/Pharo) Smalltalk. GNU Smalltalk is going to work better with that approach but you'll lose most of why people love Smalltalk, IMO.

I agree and all my tries were done done with squeak and I didn’t even consider other options so far. Thank you for advice about GNU Smalltalk, may be it worth trying even though I really wanted to use squeak and partly because I really didn’t want to “loose the most of why people love Smalltalk”.

My idea was to learn porting it to everywhere I wish it to be like in emulated retro machines and study it in it’s minimal form. Perhaps the proper way of doing it was/is to go through the blue book but I was looking for some shortcut way where I study the very basic sub-system of objects with repl first or even without it depending on the hardware/emulated platform which can be without sound/video/keyboard/mouse capabilities.

>I'd be surprised if based on what I said above you can't get a pre-built image running on a computer you have access to. If that's the case, let me know what you're trying to run it on and I'll see if I can give you a pointer to something that would work.

This is the case. My idea of ‘getting very far’ with it is to learn to separate the core minimum set of objects that can run on the machine without sound/video capabilities, only with working terminal access and then build/expand/grow the system (copy from main image additional parts if required) and learn on the way while already ‘living’ within the environment of smalltalk in it’s bare minimal basic form. The final destination may very and could be this weird first retro computer that I’ve built when I was a schoolboy(https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38762668) and not only it, I wish it to become the language of choice for many tasks

But as intermediate step it could be let’s say raspberry pi zero w - headless while (importantly!) completely without sound and video drivers. If that would be possible and easier then completely writing it from scratch it would be great.

With my current hardware limitations this is the only realistic setup in which I can study it properly .

Supposedly there are political implications for not responding to the shooting down the drone too. How are those taken into account I wander?

It seems that there is a deep believe in the US that if they wouldn’t “provoke” then russia would not attack as it would not have a reason to do it.

While I understand the logic it is still a very serious and dangerous miscalculation because “provocation” happens within russian head independently of the reality. russia can simply claim it was provoked/attacked by NATO so I really do not understand how “trying not to escalate to avoid provoking” works as deterrence.

From what I observed it doesn’t and only gives green light message to russian aggression and this could be hardly seen as a desirable political goal for US as I understand.