<rss version="2.0" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"><channel><title>Hacker News: pavvell</title><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=pavvell</link><description>Hacker News RSS</description><docs>https://hnrss.org/</docs><generator>hnrss v2.1.1</generator><lastBuildDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2026 18:46:40 +0000</lastBuildDate><atom:link href="https://hnrss.org/user?id=pavvell" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml"></atom:link><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by pavvell in "More questions about whether researchers can trust OpenAI with unpublished math"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>I think so too. The value is in the entire conversation. IMO, "domain experts" don't run LLMs blindly and hands free. This does not work for top level work (e.g., mathematical proofs, coding anything more complex than yet another slop game or website). Experts have long sessions where they prompt and guide LLM in response to what it produces. This <i>is</i> the discovery process. And frontier labs definitely train on that.<p>The billion dollar question is whether this works "out of the distribution". I.e., whether LLMs can only find and use the specific ideas buried in training data, or whether they can learn to apply the "thinking process" to a new problem. IMO this is still unanswered (due to these recent controversies).<p>But regardless of the answer, it seems we have a planet-scale positive feedback loop here. LLM became good (enough) by training on generally available data (books, internet, github) + RLFH, so experts tried to use them on hard tasks, which required lots of hand holding. These conversations became part of the training data, and the next generation of frontier LLMs were better. So, more experts used them on harder tasks, again requiring hand holding. These conversation became part of the training data... etc.<p>In a nutshell, top human minds across the world are pouring their skills into LLMs just by using them. This is not "continuous learning", but if you re-train on the most recent sessions every, say, quarter (which seems to be happening?) you get close to that in practice.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2026 09:03:16 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49640629</link><dc:creator>pavvell</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49640629</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49640629</guid></item><item><title><![CDATA[New comment by pavvell in "The inefficiency of RL, and implications for RLVR progress"]]></title><description><![CDATA[
<p>SL and SSL are very similar "algorithmically": both use gradient descent on a loss function of predicting labels, human-provided (SL) or auto-generated (SSL). Since LLMs are pretrained on human texts, you might say that the labels (i.e., next token to predict) were in fact human provided. So, I see how pretraining LLMs blurs the line between SL and SSL.<p>In modern RL, we also train deep nets on some (often non trivial) loss function. And RL is generating its training data. Hence, it blurs the line with SSL. I'd say, however, it's more complex and more computationally expensive. You need many / long rollouts to find a signal to learn from. All of this process is automated. So, from this perspective, it blurs the line with UL too :-) Though it dependence on the reward is what makes the difference.<p>Overall, going from more structured to less structured, I'd order the learning approaches: SL, SSL (pretraining), RL, UL.</p>
]]></description><pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2025 14:01:13 +0000</pubDate><link>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46096724</link><dc:creator>pavvell</dc:creator><comments>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46096724</comments><guid isPermaLink="false">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46096724</guid></item></channel></rss>