Not anymore. I haven’t heard this for a while now, and I didn’t change regarding this. But people behave very differently when I say “software developer” recently. Now they think immediately, that I’m rich. Not that I’m a freak nerd. They are not surprised anymore at all.

I experienced this very obviously with something else too. I born in Hungary, but I moved to Austria. There is a huge difference between how people behave with me if I say that I’m from Hungary, than if I say that I’m from Austria when I travel. They immediately recommend me things which are more expensive. The beaches, restaurants, pubs for rich tourists. Not when I say Hungary. That’s the only time when they say to me that something is expensive.

I state openly, that if somebody says that the public perception didn’t change and also the people in this field didn’t change to be more money focused, then those people lying, probably even to themselves. The current discussions about AI make this obvious. Most developers, engineers, founders are fine to ship shit on every single level, if they get the same money for it. They became “developers” only for the money.

“IT crowd” is unimaginable today.

One of the main reasons that killed my desire to move to the US was the amount of fake questions during - on a paper - friendly discussions, when the point of those questions was just, and only just, visibility. An average American non corporate discussion is worse than a non-American corporate one. And that seems to be pretty global to me.

My brother and my sister-in-law watched “Somebody feeds Phil”, and we watched together the Sydney episode and after that some others, because I’d just announced that I’d move to Australia soon. That Sydney episode had quite normal discussions for us, Europeans. Of course, people had agenda, but they still reacted to what response they got. Even if things were cut, most times people seemed to react to something else from before. Then the next episode was from Las Vegas. And it had full with questions where nobody responded to the answers, nobody cared what the response was. And they kept those in the episode. There was a point when Phil asked the people in a line one-by-one what they work. And they basically just listed it, Phil had zero responses to any answers. Zero reactions from anybody. The point wasn’t to engage with the answers or the people. There was another case, when a girl talked about her shop. There wasn’t a single sentence which was organically connected to another. Phil and the girl had different agenda and they had to perform based on those, no matter what. And I was enough now there to say that that happens way more frequently than elsewhere. The next one was from Manila. And there were organic discussions again. I’ve never seen that clearly this phenomenon which bugs me. Of course, the usual scripting which happens with these shows, even helped to make this more announced. Probably, the people talking in that episode were way less interesting, but still as a visual to what annoys me is quite good.

Of course, I had good conversations also over there, and I had bad ones elsewhere in this sense. Heck, I did similar things before, but maybe this is the exact reason why I’m so sensitive to this, because it annoyed me greatly when I did it. But on average, it was the worse over the pond. Especially on the extremities. But even in day-to-day discussions. It was annoying that I have to peal down an additional layer with anybody to get real answers, which is not needed basically anywhere else.

This is especially bad with new, or quickly improving frameworks, like Android Compose. LLMs use completely outdated, deprecated APIs all the time, when they are not completely supervised. Or at least, I hope so that the framework causes it. Because if that’s not the case, then your products are fucked.

Also even with the best prompts it could never produce more working code in an hour than what I can produce in a day. Regardless of quality, just “working somehow”. Not even with an uninterrupted session. If that’s the case for some, then there is definitely also a developer skill issue. And so would definitely not trust anything coming out of their “supervision” of an LLM.

There are still pockets, where if you don’t push it, you loose. But you need to search for it. Average developers won’t ever work at such places. They won’t ever encounter them, because almost no developer jobs needs that.

Btw, you can make such positions in every company. I did it, several times. And it’s very beneficial even salary wise.

What I would check is hooks, or any other customizations. Especially on Windows, data loss is absolutely possible with misconfigured hooks, but it has nothing to do with when a commit was made.

I think we lost this fight about 2-3 decades ago, when we sacrificed privacy for free stuff, mainly because the environment wasn’t this hostile yet. However, these additional steps in the wrong direction doesn’t help at all, but I also think that nobody will get any new information with these nowadays.

As far as I know, nobody with data claims that vibe coding doesn’t affect reliability negatively.

People will connect these two things.

Many times, when reliability doesn’t plummet really. For example, there were huge negative news about a Samsung phone a few years back, that it easily causes fires. Sales were affected by this. Interestingly, next year, they released basically the same thing under different name, and complains were never that loud again. And as far as I know, when they were loud, there was nothing special about that particular model regarding this. So it’s possible that outrage is not validated at all.

They will also connect these, when reliability plummets, but it’s not because of vibe coding.

And they will connect, when it is the real culprit in general, but their problems are not affected by vibe coding.

And of course also when vibe coding really causes their problems.

In any case, the original statements will be true. Do we really want to make a product less reliable to implement features and bugs which we deemed not that important before? Especially with a stable product?

Of course, these on the maintainers, but it’s interesting that forcing AI and their consequences on us - like how Microsoft, Google, etc do - is the default, and not the other way around according to many in this thread and others.

At least, I can be sure that we are not near the same level. But at least, you hopefully will recognize the same thing with new languages… without seeing them failing first.

> You generated 100s of thousands of lines of code using AI and you think it's crap?

This is a funny question. First of all, there are people whose job is to test LLMs. However, I’m not one of them. I simply tried them, generated, and still generate a ton of code with them, then I rewrite basically every single line of them. Because they use for example outdated patterns, which causes the same problems what you’ve seen with Go.

> It is repeating existing patterns or fairly simple concepts.

Yes, and most of the most popular ones are mediocre the best. Average code from which LLMs are learning are made by beginners, not experienced ones, because their sheer number. So LLMs will use those.

> I treat AI like an quick intern

This is always the funniest sentence regarding this. Before AI, it was quite well known that you don’t ever allow interns near important parts of the code. Now, people who supposed to know this, and the reasons for this, somehow forgot this aspect also, just like the review thing.

> AI enables these things to get done with very little overhead so that's a net positive.

No, it does allow to tick a ticket in Jira. And if you handle this in any other way, then you will fail miserably, as how for example Microsoft quite openly did with this.

> a little bit cleaner

Ah yes, the infamous “cleaner”, about which the exact opposite is quite well known, and it’s quite obviously not true with every single vibe coded projects, without exceptions. If that’s cleaner in any environment, then I have a bad news: you’ve never worked with even medior developers, ever. Seriously, that code quality, especially architecturally, is junior level shit.

My previous boss did these low hanging fruits, he at least would never tell anything more than “it’s better than nothing”. And only regarding non-important code, which can fail without real consequences. And can be shit, obviously. The whole point was that even shit is better than nothing. Not that it’s acceptable quality in any way.

At least, you were obvious at least, that your “success” is magnitudes different, than mine. And not regarding code quality, but when a project/product successful. I completely forgot that I’ve met people who sold that their teams completed the most tickets at a company in a given time frame as success. Probably we are closer than this, but still very far away.

Maybe not.

I'm just waiting for somebody who send me code, which was generated by AI, not overwritten almost completely, and it's not shit. The funny thing is that some people here were so convinced that AI is great, that they recorded how they work with AI. And two things:

- They were slower than manual copy pasting

- They still somehow introduced bugs, and very suboptimal solutions...

Also, it would be good, that anybody could show me anything, that shows, how people became not terrible with code review suddenly. Because before AI, it was a common knowledge, that almost everybody was bad with it, and people rarely did it properly, because it was considered annoying, and not because they were useless. There were jokes about rewriting things, exactly because of the same reasons, and they heavily based on reality. And suddenly, we pretend that this changed.

And somehow you should really would need to convince me that the 100s of thousands of lines of code which I generated with AI in the past years, somehow, it's better than what it is. But I'm sure, that it's easier to assume that I didn't try something, than showing only once what "good" means in this case. Unfortunately, there is nothing similar here, than for example "Groovy is a great programming language", which is a dead giveaway that whoever said that is not just bad developer, but somebody who I would fire immediately from every single project to which I'm related to. Especially if they are tech lead. But there are such people, and some of them would claim the same thing as you. // Obviously interns and juniors can think whatever they want. They are labeled as such, because they cannot know yet.

The most successful projects which I’ve seen closely, all of them had only a few people who mattered, everybody else could be replaced at any given time basically, without a real impact. All of the failing ones were those in which those people didn’t exist, or were too few of them. This is exponentially more important in early phases of projects.

As far as I know basically all of the successful software companies had these quite early. Of course, you need other kinds of people too. And not everybody needs to be like that. But you absolutely need those kind of people.

But if you give me a few examples where this was not the case, and not recently, or during the dot com boom, where hype overwrote everything, then I’ll change my mind.

I replied like that because I think you applied logic too strictly already.