"It is hard to think that a $2 billion company with 4,300-plus people couldn't compete with six people in blue jeans."

If Apple really wants to express themselves, United States law won't stop them from disincorporating and relocating their private assets to a nation they're more comfortable with like Russia or China. They could become a PRC-subsidiary and fulfill their destiny of being the man in the glasses on the grey TV.

You and I can feel whatever way we want about it, it doesn't change a thing. Apple's market abuses are unique from Google's, and specifically you are asking the DOJ to punish Google for abuse that hasn't happened. Google's most egregious violation so far has been their advertising racket, which they were already punished for last year: https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-wraps-up-antitrust-case-aga...

This is basically the crux of your argument. I mostly agree with you - neither Apple nor Google do enough to protect user traffic in the big-picture. You can Wireshark a lot of data off both OSes, the throughput is even scarier when you track radio emissions.

That being said, a lot of people have taken notes from Apple's "protect user privacy" shtick. Many logging libraries contain the app-equivalent of screen-recording baked in to the app framework, enabling a pipeline where PII gets ingested as a part of the logging process. Startups that incorporate these processes then brag about their self-imposed security compliance as a result of their own ass-backwards philosophy. And these aren't even the bad guys!

Companies like TikTok and Facebook collect lord knows how much information, and use the same "security" tautology as their scrappy startup peers. They consciously stretch the limits of their API capabilities, and then turn around and make puppy-eyes whenever regulators act concerned. Meanwhile, the actual users of these smartphones aren't empowered to regulate their own device's security. They can't turn off their phone because the modem is still on. They can't firewall Facebook analytics when the app is closed. They can't even stop their notifications from being snooped on without disabling the feature altogether. Where's Apple or Google when that's under scrutiny?

It's a bit tangential, but this is why I think Apple made an enormous mistake attempting to commodity privacy. Privacy is idealistic - there will always be perennial exploits on the iPhone to prove them wrong. Because Apple commits to imperfect, conditional privacy, scummier-and-scummier companies can follow their imperfect lead and make the same claims. And because none of them are as big as Apple, they rarely take flak when their systems fail. Apple's attempts to market security is like watching a leading F1 driver start turning into a tailspin, and taking the rest of the racers with them in a firey crash.

You think that's some kind of low blow? This is a problem on the Mac App Store, too; if you buy software Apple depreciates, your Apple hardware won't run it. Don't get mad at Adobe or Steam, get mad at the person depreciating things with wild abandon and expecting everyone to cater their whims. Get mad at yourself for accidentally trusting Apple and updating to their new OS without reading the conditional changes they're introducing to your computer's software. Steam and it's publishing partners have no intrinsic obligation to support software that didn't exist when they wrote their programs.

> Which seems to really upset people when Apple charges that.

The App Store could take a 99% cut, for all most developers care. The point-of-contention is Apple's lack of an alternative, which makes any percentage unsubstantiated because there's no way to deliver software at-cost. Apple isn't charging for convenience, they're commoditizing privlidge.

Nobody cares when Steam takes their 30% because people deliberately install it on their PC. The App Store on MacOS is a great example of what happens when you let an arbitrary payment surcharge meet the free market. It becomes a fucking ghost town.

Sure - user input handling, raster graphics, text formatting... HTML rendering and browser technology though? Apple made WebKit using FOSS desktop libraries, and then turned around to deny users FOSS desktop-grade competition. They TiVoized your browser.

Apple is going to have a tough defense, if they decide to steelman that particular point. The writing is on the wall, competition is coming with or without Apple's approval.

> "Apple sabotages webkit for other Browsers" is a different—and to me at least, much stronger—argument than "Apple requires other browsers to use Webkit".

Strong is an appropriate word for it. Many developers are starting to lose their nerve: https://mozilla.github.io/platform-tilt/

So, now let's introduce iOS into the equation. Apple can differentiate their product, but how much is considered acceptable before regulators complain? The DOJ was quite straightforward today, accusing Apple of using iMessage to degrade user experiences through exclusion. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's probably a...?

- Android is Open Source. Google itself is a ghoulish company nowadays, few people are wrong in assuming that. For all of iOS' security taglines though, you can't build it yourself and create a further-hardened version. "Features" like Apple routing traffic around your VPN cannot be un-programmed. This doesn't necessarily make Android a better OS, but it absolutely enables better overall privacy and proves that a better ideal is realistic. I don't personally hold Google in high regards security-wise, but the AOSP has nothing to hide. You can go see for yourself.

- Apple's software can't be trusted. pbourke's correct in that consumers have to make a choice about trust when selecting hardware, but I see no evidence that Apple's approach is working. Their services turn over personally-identifying data to governments by the ten-thousands, and in countries like China your iCloud server lives in a CCP-owned facility. Apple does nothing to resist obvious government censorship ploys, and is indeed a decade-old member of America's PRISM program. Without any transparency holding Apple accountable, you really have to hold on the question - can you trust them?

- Neither Google nor Apple make good OSes, in part because neither one is motivated to compete with the other. Google treats Android as a technology dumping ground and a defacto unifying platform for their various hairbrained hardware endeavors. Apple treats iOS like Hotel California. Both companies have found a niche in ignoring each other, and Apple has used it as an excuse to pursue business strategies Google could never dream of. It's a threat to the market no matter how either of us feel about it.

The DOJ put it best, this morning: "Apple deploys privacy and security justifications as an elastic shield that can stretch or contract to serve Apple’s financial and business interests."

Which is coincidentally quite similar to the treatment of North Korean and Chinese penal workers. Russian labor camps are pretty far up there too.

Many Foxconn factories have armed guards, but it's not to keep people out...